MIA guild members...and much more

(Preface: note to Arri - If you think the update to Ibby was a book. NEWS FLASH MOTHER#%%$^!!!!) roflmao

Allow me to start off by saying that I *without a doubt* realize that some of this content is a "touchy" subject for some. Problems (oops! too head on?) "issues" don't get addressed sweeping things under the rug... so here goes, since I know that we've all been thinking about/talking about some of these things in the last year++.

Like several others, I'd like to see us grow as well. The whole point of this post is: in what direction? No goal = no progress. So I'm drop-kicking the ball into fair play!

I would very much like to get all guildies insights into where YOU would like to see this guild go.

-Hopes (what you would like to see VF become)

-Critiques (things that you think should change, or helpful tips, etc)

-Is more 'structure' helpful or a hindrance? (think: raid nights, high level runs, low level runs, TR trains, etc)
a. frequency: each one on a given day a week? a weeks worth of one, then week 2 another?
b. keep the "what's everybody in the mood for" rolling? (though this will be harder to maintain with more members)
c. have a set raid day(s), and let the rest fall where it may?
d. set guild run days? the rest...'whatever' free-for-alls?
e. other?

-Aspects you would never want to see change...

-Is guild reputation important to you? (EG: among pugs, among vets, among EE types, only to guildies, etc)

-What qualities would you want/expect in your "ideal" guild?

-What type of person/personality would you think to be a good recruit? (And perhaps even, why?)


I guess what I'm getting at here is... while I've been in VF for quite a while, in DDO I've seen enough ups, and downs, guild implosions and explosions, and I've seen some great things spontaneously implode. TLDR: I've been around the block enough to spot the signs (both inside and out), and would like to think I've learned a bit from it. Though as anyone with any sense knows, the only time you truly *stop* learning is when you stop breathing. So I'm by no means an expert, nor do I claim to be. Outspoken, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Confused, more than I'd like to be sometimes (lol). I just *know* that "that thing I just told you" was true at some point! -Even if it has changed twice since then (3-5 years ago)! What can I say. I *do try* however to be as accurate as I can. rofl

At any rate, I REALLY like the folks that I've run with on a regular basis. And would prefer to run even more with the one or two that are here on occasion that I haven't been able to run with much. IMO, no one in a guild should be an island. However, at the moment, and with our size, it can become a bit difficult to squeeze everyone in, if everyone is on at the same time, and inevitably there won't be enough room in a single group. Worse, we don't have enough yet to fill two complete groups (or one raid), if we wanted to.

I've heard a few folks mention recently that they'd like to see us grow. I've also been acutely aware of minor frustrations that some have with what/how/when we run. I've shared a lot of those same concerns, trust me. Also, one of the main reasons for the title. Personally, I'd like to cut the long-overdue players that are MIA (missing in action). I've said that before, but I didn't really express why as clearly, as I'd like to now.

I think that the "dead weight" rests heavily on a lot us. Even though, the current guild renown formula doesn't give a penalty for those that have been gone past 'x' length of time, to see a mile long list of (players) what VF once was, and is no longer, only serves to remind us of friends/people lost and in certain cases, the reason(s) why they left.

Nonetheless, in my opinion, VF has been a new entity for well over a year, and deserves a fresh start, and to me, part of that should include clearing out the folks that no longer deem it worthwhile to be with us. Short and to the point: I think that if they haven't been an active guild player within the last 6-months, they should be removed. We can always re-add them to the roster IF they return, and IF they're still interested in running with those remaining. Being a part of the guild's fun is the sole reason to be in a guild. Otherwise, you're just a buff sponge. (oddball hours/family requirements/other side of the planet excepted of course). But the key I'm trying to point out is being part of the team, sharing in the camaraderie.

Soloer's have no place in a guild in an MMO in my opinion. (Strong viewpoint no doubt, but, it's how I see things, and feel free to tell me "I'm wrong", I'll respect it. May not agree with you, lol but I will respect your viewpoint.) A guild should be a place to share friendships, just cut up, and possibly not even run a damn thing for an evening because it's fun to sometimes just sit around 'shooting the bull'!

I also understand that everyone has different reasons for playing, and some seek to get different things out of it.
For such a small guild, we have a core foundation of a really and truly eclectic mix that have really toughed it out through the worst of VF. So that alone is testament to a great deal of inner fortitude above and beyond the daily game bugs. LOL
I think the fact that we're still 'standing', and keep each other laughing, as a guild speaks volumes. And that's something I'm proud to have been part of.

Anyways...In the 'core' group, we have folks that enjoy taking their time, folks that can only play limited time spans, and folks that really like to max things out and get as much in as possible into as little time as it can be crammed in to. And yet amazingly enough, we've managed time to come together and run as a group. Impressive.

I'd like to have *more* of the same level of friendliness, and competence, and nearly the same level of knowledge (and at the very least, the willingness to learn in *anyone* that we consider as a "semi-blind" recruitment. Meaning: any "Joe Blow" that's already on the server. (Not referring to, or including any immediate friends/family in the previous of course, or as I referred to them recently: "a Legacy" *grins*)

While I'm at it, I'd also like to see what everyone thinks about the "everyone's an officer" thing...I know some don't mind it, some do, and other's don't care one way or the other. It really kind of developed as a by-product of the small close-knit family that we've had over the last year or two as a 'convenience' factor in Megan's absence. However, IF we are going to actively consider recruiting more folks into the family, I think that things on that front should probably be scaled back a bit. I just have no idea to what degree. Would a min. character lvl. (20? 15? 25?) be a good approach? Or would it be better left to personal choice of the officer (eg: 2 toons of choice at any given time)? Or...?

Help me out here folks! If you were brand new into a guild and saw a mile long list of officers, and triple that list of people that haven't been logged in... what would your impression/expectation be?

PS: thanks for reading!

As I'm not aure when I'll be able to log in and provide pariticipation and responsability for guild protocols- nevermind that my whole conception of the guild may be outdated- I won't offer immediate considerations to how such things should be organized.

There are some things I can give you consideration on, however:
I've been in several guilds, and even though I loved the ones with open officerization at times, they never managed good organization.

Likewise, ones with too few officers grew stagnant and awkward.

The best approach I've seen is to tie officerization to
Conduct- treating officer roles with self- and guild- respect, and having a good idea of their role in the guild (which does require some minimum time spent with it)

Will- the will to take on a more acftive role in the guild. -some people just don't want that-, while some show early that they're not willing to put even minimal effort into it.

Openness- everyone needs to feel they can contribute to the guild, and that officers aren't an exclusive club.

Thus, clear rules (as we have now, though I can't say if they need updating or not) on officer requirements, that make them open and accessible to anyone that wants them.



Speaking of, stronger individual leadership roles would do wonders, assuming we have a leader active enough to keep the roles organized and supported.

For example, I found myself taking on roles as guild organizer and guild mediator- both roles that in some way or another I would be more than willing to pick back up once I managed to return to the game (you really don't want to leave me too much free time to consider what mischief I can get to on the forums, after all).

My roles then focus on helping to establish framework, and keep it steady.

But that leaves a great deal of things I have no inclination toward, or comittment to.
Leadership, for one; I've never favored the role, and still lacking certain entire emotions from my brain damage, I can't put in the enthusiasm it would require.

Hence why I've been pushing everyone to get Etchin in the role

As far as other roles, those are limited to our imagination and desire.

We don't need much oversight in the game to begin with, especially not in our guild, so most of the roles would be organizational.

Ideally, we'd have mutiple people who work on coordinating raid nights, and anyone that wants to establish a GIMP, PD, or static group could, using the forums to keep things organized.

Point being, if we all decide what roles we want to follow through with, and all actively recruit, we shouldn't have any concern.

Add in Etchin's strong, enthusiatic -and already unofficially active- leadership, and with us making sure he doesn't get overstressed in the role, and the proof of our bonds we've established over the past (two years?) as a group, and we should be able to avoid any of the complications other guilds, or our previous incarnations, faced.

in any case, it's past time I started acknowledging Our Plankwalking Lord and Kobold Savior Etchin in his role.

I'll see what I can do with the forum admin via my phone, just let me know what you need.

Other than direct forum/layout management, I believe I already gave you and Megan full forum access when I made the forums.

If you'd like, I can continue acting as a sort of bouncing board for you, as well; and when I become active again, I can fully take on roles of mediation, organizational support (but not instigation, you all are on your own with raid nights ) and event organization.

As far as the old members:
Wait till the start of next month (giving plenty of time for those considering checking out the expansion to do so) and then remove all toons over 5 months old.

That'd be my advice; with the exception of my toons, please
That includes the Ib-beration that is Teruka..

1- "more structured about raid/guid day runs"
Not everyone can join in certain hours in certains days because unexpected situations always happen: family, work, go out with friends, wants to do another activity and so on.

I think what we can do is to assign certain days to certain actitities, if there's enough people to do the activity then we carry it out.

And we decide what to do in common consensus according whose logged on.

When we have more people spots could be easily filled.

But anyway we can say:

- Thursdays and Saturdays: are raiding evening/nights.
- The rest of the week: flagging and whatever else people wants to do.

2- Aspects you would never want to see change:
"..The friendship atmosphere..": As I wrote in another post and you did here Etch, there are sometimes that we dont run any quest at all and just talk about whatever we've been doing in the game (Lamania), what we want a  certain toon to achieve and so on.

"..running tough quests playing each one with a role...": I have in my mind some quests we did in times when we were all together that were AWESOME at the point of wanting to make a VIDEO of it. I still remember an EPIC ELITE "The lost Thread" when we had 47 deaths!!! ..I almost run off Resurrection components....=)


3- What type of person/personality would you think to be a good recruit?

I think what Ibby wrote to me before is what is required: "teamwork, socialization, respect, and good will"
- teamwork:
  - mainly run quests as a group each one trying to fullfil its role.
  - http://ddowiki.com/page/Fighting_in_groups is a good reading about this point.
  - Usually you see a good teamwork player when he helps other players: carrying soul stones ..=), buffing, helping low hitpoints players and so on.
  - Players that die 10 miles away from the group and then blame the healer are not wanted.

- socialization, respect, and good will
  - Everyone knows what this means.

4- "Dead weight"
Yes! I think that after 5-6 months of not logging in a character (account) should be expelled from the guild only for "renown formula", and if the player returns and wants to join the guild again then its ok.

Well I'm not at all a man of many words expect when rambling on about computer stuff. I've been in a few guilds and the biggest thing that I've become victim of if it being in a guild was being a lone wolf. Since joining VF I've felt including more than ever even though the last 2 months have been a few problems after another.

I'm really big on the fellowship of guildies, questing, raiding, and supporting the guild even if that means being a friend to talk too. So I also second the respect and good will of every person behind each toon.

I don't mind the guild inviting others but like previous guidelines it must be people that want and like to run with us. I'm open to whatever the guild as a whole wants.

Hate to be a stick in the mud but Dead weight is not helping us progress with the long hours spent grinding renown as a guild.

As always if you need anything from me just let me know.

As Etchin noted, so long as no toon of the account is longed, after a month absent, the account no longer counts toward decay. On the flip side, booting an account, active or inactive, loses a portion of their contributed XP. So it's usually better to keep accounts around if there is a chance of player return; though certainly, clearing away cobwebs is necessary now and then.

As far as blaming healers, Meg told me once she loves playing healers most, but feels overwhelmed at any negative feelings that come out of the role. I know she isn't alone in having noted that to me over the years. So it's something to emphasize good will on, as Malbek said.

I don't get many chances to socialize these days, and certainly not in the past few years, with my circumstancrs. VF has been a haven, a bit of fresh air and relaxation over the years, even during conflicts- namely since we've always been careful to listen to one another, and not let things get out of hand.
I'm especially grateful for the patience I've been shown, with my brain damage- and pain-induced frustrations, confusions, and general awk


wardness.

Phone forum bugs- contributing to emphasis since (now)

Oh, and:
:glomps the Kerb:

Oh, and there's a good point-
If we emphasize listing characters on the forum ddo profile, keeping track of 'dead weight' should be a lot easier.

And I'm all in favor of anything that helps me figure out who (random alt) is

First I like to say how terrific it has been to play with all of you.It's you guys that make this guild awesome.Renown aint nuttin but a number.With that said I know that we are'nt climbing as fast as we want.With the elitists leaving and forming new guilds(Pikers and hoaders/Army of Uberness) we lost substatial renown.We were in renown limbo.Up down up down down down.I don't know the specifics(mechanics) of how booting inactive players affects renown currently or in the long run.But if we have to push the inactives off the boat to make us soar higher in the long run then I believe we must.I'm lucky though.Most of the people that I am closer with are active almost everyday.And I know the feeling of but what if he/she comes back?.If they do they are most certainly welcome back in.So with that said I think that we should come up with a way (the best way)to kick inactives off with the least renown loss.Whether we do it in a lump sum or periodically.I am not too much in a hurry to recruit more pug players to our guild(I prefer friends and family of our guildies)but if you find a good one then awesome.With that said I prefer a great group of people to play with than high levels in the guild renown anyday.
Guild rep is not that important to me(who cares really what others think of us).Actions speaks louder than words.We should be seen not heard.
@Malbek.Really Mal as long as your healing them and they die it's really their own fault.If they zerg ahead ( I know I zerg a lot!!)then they should face the consequences of zerging.I have all the wands,lotions,potions,clickies,scrolls,and etc before I zerg.Btw the reason I zerg is because I like to test and challenge myself not to show off but will stop if it disrupts the group.Most of the time I win but sometimes I lose and it is in losing I become more wise.
So thats all I really have to add.I think whatever happends it can't be worst than what this guild has been through.VF could had been one of the most sought after guilds to be in on sarlona if it hadn't been for pride and jealousy.Oh and hate.Hate is bad.And elitistism.TTFN.

Ill try to explain myself a bit....about the healing-zerging.
This is a thing that NEVER happened in this guild, I'm only talking about non "good willing" players that "sometimes" you see in groups...usually monks, but these type of players are usually new to the game or kids (intellectually speaking).
I was referring to that type of players when talking about new recruitments, if a player does that, we cant say its "good willing" or "likes to work in teams".

All of us know how to handle aggro and run away from it to self-heal or near the healer...=)

Oh I know who you are talking about.I have like 5 healer toons maybe 6-8 I don't know.But I know who you are talking about.What I was telling you is to not worry about it. If they want to zerg I just say in chat (oh wow your about to die)zerger says:HJEAL MEH!!!. I say(I can't your too far away).Zerger says:well hurry up and get here!!.I say(me and the fighter are still clearing the mobs you left behind.Zerger says:DING!!.I say(oh noes.....there goes our 10%towards xp for not dying).So all I would is tell them that you can't heal them your too far away.And most of the time they will run backwards to you to be healed.It's all communication.But I know for a fact that some zergers can't be helped.So I would just heal/raise dead them and try to advoid them like bitter vegetables.TTFN

Mal: Check your PM's please

*note to self...when starting these kinds of threads, reserve the 1st post as an "update/overview" post. (also: guild 'vets' yet to weigh in... Sky, Zeanel, Arri, Khal, Robo)



Guild Direction:
------------------
Ibs:
- "We don't need much oversight in the game to begin with, especially not in our guild"
- "Ideally, we'd have multiple people who work on coordinating raid nights, and anyone that wants to establish a GIMP, PD, or static group could, using the forums to keep things organized."

Mal:
- "..The friendship atmosphere..": As I wrote in another post and you did here Etch, there are sometimes that we don't run any quest at all and just talk about whatever we've been doing in the game (Lamannia), what we want a certain toon to achieve and so on."

- "I have in my mind some quests we did in times when we were all together that were AWESOME to the point of wanting to make a VIDEO of it."

Kerb:
- "...the biggest thing that I've become victim of if it being in a guild was being a lone wolf. Since joining VF I've felt including more than ever..."

>>> recap: <<<
stronger use of the guild forums (character records, raiding/flagging, etc), maintain priority on a friendly focus. The fun with the folks you run with will always be the draw!



Guild Organization:
----------------------
Ibs:
- "The best approach I've seen is to tie officerization to Conduct- treating officer roles with self- and guild- respect, and having a good idea of their role in the guild (which does require some minimum time spent with it)"
- "the will to take on a more active role in the guild."
- "a leader active enough to keep the roles organized and supported."
- "Ideally, we'd have multiple people who work on coordinating raid nights, and anyone that wants to establish a GIMP, PD, or static group could, using the forums to keep things organized."

Mal:
- "I think what we can do is to assign certain days to certain activities, if there's enough people to do the activity then we carry it out."

>>> recap: <<<
Find a 'stand-in' volunteer to schedule/organize guild raid days, until Ibs comes back, to take back the reigns Personal note to Ibs: Thank you again! Even though you're not here in body, you're still involved in the guild. Says tons bud. We miss your nightly presence good sir!

Seek a volunteer for Treasury position (making sure that the ship buffs are refilled consistently) While making sure that everyone tries to do their part in paying that person back. We all use them! We should all chip in! (Usual refills average 100kpp per month without the 3 altars, so that would work out to 10k pp each given that we have 10 people fairly active ATM. -not including Kaidessa, or Talmak) Recently I've been figuring 6 players, with the idea that if someone can't donate/hasn't donated, it covers them. If nothing else, it's a gesture to say "I appreciate you doing this for us!"
I know that it meant a lot to me when folks were chipping in to help me offset the cost!



Guild Recruiting:
-------------------
Mal:
- teamwork:
- mainly run quests as a group each one trying to fullfil its role.
- http://ddowiki.com/page/Fighting_in_groups is a good reading about this point.
- Usually you see a good teamwork player when he helps other players: carrying soul stones ..=), buffing, helping low hitpoints players and so on.
- Players that die 10 miles away from the group and then blame the healer are not wanted.
- socialization, respect, and good will
- Everyone knows what this means.
- "talking about new recruitments, if a player does that (zerging), we cant say its "good willing" or "likes to work in teams".

Kerb:
- "I'm really big on the fellowship of guildies, questing, raiding, and supporting the guild even if that means being a friend to talk too. So I also second the respect and good will of every person behind each toon. "
- "I don't mind the guild inviting others but like previous guidelines it must be people that want and like to run with us."

>>> recap: <<<
considering a recruit... if they:
- constantly zerg and die without regard for the PUG (don't bother)
- yell at the PUG healer (don't bother)
- are rude to others in the PUG (don't bother)

- have a fun, healthy, and respectful attitude towards other players (consider asking them!)
- play as a team member [and ARE NOT in a guild already] (consider asking them!)
If they express dissatisfaction with their current guild, ask why, and make sure it's their guild and not the player who has issues! (We don't want to develop a reputation as poachers! That could make it hard to get into PUG groups as individual members, or hard as a guild to fill empty spots in our guild raids!)
- do consider how long they've been playing, as most fresh off the harbor are high-risk.
- do consider what packs they have, or if they plan on being VIP soon/regularly.
- do bring "potentials" to Guild attention, so that we can schedule runs with them as per guidelines.



"Trimming the fat" (inactive members):
---------------------------------------------
Votes for yes, we need to: Ibs, Mal, Kerb, Chingy, Etchin.

Votes for no: none (so far)



Guild Reputation:
--------------------
Chingy:
Guild rep is not that important to me(who cares really what others think of us).Actions speaks louder than words.We should be seen not heard.

Couldn't have said it better bro! Reputation is hard earned, but can disappear in a flash.
We have several allies in Bathory, High Lords, and others...
As long as we keep looking at ourselves first, and focus on being friendly, and strong team players, the rest takes care of itself! =)

Well, before you count me as a yes on old member booting, keep in mind that I wouldn't be here if the guild had been overager on booting in its early days:
I was perhaps the 6th person ever invited into the guild, then I spent 2 years running with my guilds on Cannith and Khyber (this well before guild xp, heh).

When my other guilds died, I was idly server hopping, and found myself in the most remarkable guild I'd ever seen. Not for it's organization or openess of officerization, or structure- my other guilds were far more specialized in those.
But for the enthusiasm, energy, passionate teamwork and guildie support, readiness and willingness to assist another and never ignore anyone in the guild.

Many things have changed- better or worse- but that fire, sense of support and camradarie..
That has only been forged like iron in the flame into something more reliable and durable.

So, of course I'll hold on to the lot of you until the very end. You're like my second family, after all- you know, the one I keep in dark, wet dungeons.

..er..

So, as I was saying, a certain amount of leniency on booting may be good: at the very least for members we hope to see return soon, like Hex.

No no no, I totally agree with pedobear... And I does makes no plans of removing Hex and her hubby ATM. I was just talking sauces, Ye Old Ibtastic One then with thems one's WAY out of 'date'.

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